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 Post subject: The "festival bubble"
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 00:31 
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In the U S of A they are talking about a festival bubble and I think we will see a similar situation in Denmark with all these festivals, the market is simply to small.

Hove festivalen in Norway closed down (and they blamed Tinderbox) and Also Hultsfred in Sweden collapsed some years ago and our own Skive Festival also went bankrupt.

From what I understand then Trailerpark is done and Distortion lines on handout it seems.

The only safe ones is probably Roskilde, Smukfest and Northside.
I am not sure how Tinderbox economy looks when the public money runs out (was it a 5 year deal) and Vig has a debt of 1,7 million from this years festival.

How Jelling, Heartland and Nibe goes I don't know but it seems like Copenhell is doing well.

I can't figure out if there is 1 or 2 new Copenhagen festivals (Cosmos is the one) but I don't give them a long lifespand.

So what are your guys take on the festival situation, is it good with all that competition.


Last edited by Orange on 16 Dec 2016, 10:33, edited 1 time in total.
Discussion split from the "Other Danish festivals 2017" thread


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 00:38 
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I dont see a problem.

Smukfest is selling better then ever. NS is selling good to. Roskilde have been for year. Copenhell where for the first time ever in 16.

Sure some of the small might die. Tinderbox at some point have to move date, when they do it will work.

In dont see the bubble. I more see festivals is more popularer then in a longe time. But year some of the smaller camping festival might die, but they will be taken over by city festivals I am sure.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 10:03 
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Heartand festival is owned by Live Nation, so money wouldn't be a problem, and they are determined to go for the long haul.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 10:19 
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We have this "festival bubble" in spain since 5-6 years but as livenation has come to Stay (mad cool and Download) some other festivals as Azkena, BBK or Resurrection Will have more troubles. I Guess primavera sound, benicassim or Sonar are Well stablished (benicassim had problems a completo of years ago but they look solved). Of course it was easier in 2005 to choose your festivals, but this hype with them is not bad at All.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 10:25 
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The problem for the future of Roskilde Festival is those franchise festivals owned by Live Nation and Scorpio for example. The bands will plan their dates according to those brands and it will be harder and harder ro find bands who will tour independently. Still, it will result the festivals resembling each other everywhere. The same bands will play Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Germany... etc. Every festival will the same. And on the national scale it will also lead to the same bands on every fucking festival. The situation in Finland is horrible. We had three major festivals in the past with great lineups, now it´s all radio friendly lame -ass artists for the "musically challenged". Only Flow in Helsinki and some really small festivals are holding up


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 14:41 
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Thats my point, if we looks besides Coachella and maybe a few others then all the us festivals have almost the same lineup so maybe there is a market for it but not that many touring bands and artists to choose from.

In a little country as Denmark it means that the prices for the bands just get higher and higher because there are more festivals to fight for the same amount of bands.

Look at Skanderborg that charges 2400 for a ticket and not that many years ago Roskilde was around 1500 kroner.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 23:11 
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bongo-anders wrote:
Thats my point, if we looks besides Coachella and maybe a few others then all the us festivals have almost the same lineup so maybe there is a market for it but not that many touring bands and artists to choose from.

In a little country as Denmark it means that the prices for the bands just get higher and higher because there are more festivals to fight for the same amount of bands.

Look at Skanderborg that charges 2400 for a ticket and not that many years ago Roskilde was around 1500 kroner.


There where a jump form 07 to 09 yes. But if you look at the forbrugerprisindeks the 09 pris to day would be 1.956,49 , so we have to pay 40kr more or in other words 2% more for 7 years. That is not a lot, it is very low


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2016, 23:38 
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That is actually not that much.


For fun I was looking at Rock Werchter and that Festival costs around 1750 without camping and 1950 with camping and that is only 5 days of camping.
So maybe we think that its expensive but in reality its not.


I know that its possible to find cheaper festivals but they don´t offer the same amount of camping activities (if any at all) and that´s not in that direction anyone of us wants to go.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 00:08 
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bongo-anders wrote:
That is actually not that much.


For fun I was looking at Rock Werchter and that Festival costs around 1750 without camping and 1950 with camping and that is only 5 days of camping.
So maybe we think that its expensive but in reality its not.


I know that its possible to find cheaper festivals but they don´t offer the same amount of camping activities (if any at all) and that´s not in that direction anyone of us wants to go.


It think it is more the big stadium shows where the price is going crazy. 3 big names at stadiums shows are the same as a Roskilde ticket


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2016, 00:47 
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bongo-anders wrote:
In the U S of A they are talking about a festival bubble and I think we will see a similar situation in Denmark with all these festivals, the market is simply to small.

Hove festivalen in Norway closed down (and they blamed Tinderbox) and Also Hultsfred in Sweden collapsed some years ago and our own Skive Festival also went bankrupt.

From what I understand then Trailerpark is done and Distortion lines on handout it seems.

The only safe ones is probably Roskilde, Smukfest and Northside.
I am not sure how Tinderbox economy looks when the public money runs out (was it a 5 year deal) and Vig has a debt of 1,7 million from this years festival.

How Jelling, Heartland and Nibe goes I don't know but it seems like Copenhell is doing well.

I can't figure out if there is 1 or 2 new Copenhagen festivals (Cosmos is the one) but I don't give them a long lifespand.

So what are your guys take on the festival situation, is it good with all that competition.

Like Martin, I'm not sure that I would call the current situation a bubble. If so, it's a really big one, since there's been an abundancy of Danish festivals new and old for the best of a decade now. Sure, we've seen a bit of a surge in new festivals, but the demand has to an extent gone up as well. I think newcomers like Tinderbox and Northside benefit very much from a local audience who upon seeing new opportunities in their back yard "wake up" and fork over money for tickets. I do worry that some of especially the newcomers in the field will crumble over the years, but many of the older festivals are doing very well.

Most examples of festivals biting the dust are also often easily explainable by bad management, unhealthy economics, etc. Keep in mind that festivals are in some cases run by happy idealists with big heads and even bigger ideas and it takes both talent and determination to succesfully marry this to a sound business model:

— Hovefestivalen, as far as I know, never ever turned a profit in its lifespan, but dug holes that were millions of NOK deep EVERY year. Blaming their demise on the advent of Tinderbox was both cowardly of them and a way too obvious red herring. How stupid did they think we are? They were always struggling, every single year, even with impressive lineups.

— Same goes for Peace & Love and Hultsfredfestivalen. I think Hultsfred were struggling with losses since 2008 and having FKP Scorpio buy them up and move the whole mess to Stockholm in 2013 was just unbelievably stupid. Both Hultsfred and P&L have pulled a "Skive", though, and refocused to being local festivals with only smaller, domestic names in their lineups.

— I don't think Trailerpark closing was an economics issue though.

— Tinderbox and Northside are actually both in uncertain territory if they don't start turning a profit soon. Northside suffered losses to the tune of a few million kroner in 2015 even though they were completely sold out and Tinderbox burned up 30 million kroner the same year despite the well publicized financial support from the municipality.

— Jelling and Nibe are probably safe. I believe they both sell out most if not all years. Skive is another story. Actually you're not right – they haven't been really bankrupt since a flop in 1996. The bankruptcy proceedings in 2012 were actually withdrawn due to locals ponying up the money to keep it somewhat afloat. It hasn't looked well for some years now, but the gulf between (probably huge) payouts to headliners like Rammstein, Green Day, Rise Against, White Lies and Gossip all in one year and the meagre amount of paying guests (15.000) the festival can actually accomodate had to take its economic toll. I think they'll do better on this smaller scale they're operating at atm. In comparison, Nibe and Jelling both sell about twice as many tickets, usually with lineups made up of much smaller bands to eat into the money.

— There are actually three new Copenhagen festivals: Komos (not Cosmos) in Kongens Have, and Haven plus Engage, both on Refshaleøen where Copenhell also takes place. Engage is placed pretty early in the season (late May) but the other two are sandwiched in between a bunch of other festivals and events. I can't see either live long. Like Vanguard Festival they are entering a pretty packed market.


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